Curse

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 07, 2011, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Waz up fellow GW people!

A few months ago the graphics card on my HP dv9700 laptop died. The VGA backup on it works, so I am able to use this laptop to write this, I just cannot play video games

Also, I have been wanting to build a new desktop to replace my 6 year old Dell.

Edit: First first, price range is $1,000 to $2,000. And I want to do it right, not half-arse it.

So, first, I think I shall go with Intel, unless someone can make a very persuasive argument for AMD.

Second, I think I have decided upon going with the Intel x58 Motherboard and the i7 920 processor (again, unless someone can make a great argument otherwise. I doubt that there is a need for the 930, 940 or 950, since by the time I would need their higher Ghz, I could just buy the 970, 980 or even 990). Where I am having trouble deciding is, what brand to go with for the motherboard?

I have read good things about the Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, until I read about a defect that caused an annoying noise. However, that problem seems to have been fixed with the latest update.

Apparently there are more expensive models of the Gigabyte x58, but from the reviews I read, apparently you do not get much more for the big price increase (from $120 to $180 more), which is one of the reasons the UD3R was so well liked. The UD3R can be had for as low as $209 on Newegg.com

Now, for $370, the Asus Rampage 3 Extreme does very nice (I noticed that the Gigabyte was missing some features that an MSI had, which bothered me, such as the Gigabyte not stating that it supported i7 Extreme processors, which I may want to upgrade to when their prices drop to that of the 920).

I would very much appreciate any input

Some further questions:

Do you anticipate a price drop or new essential technology anytime soon such that I should wait a month or two before buying the parts to make sure I build a future-ready PC (I am busy enough playing CoD: Black Ops on my 360, and the 7 hero/embark update has not come out yet, so I do not really need a new desktop just yet)

I doubt figuring out what RAM or other stuff I need will be too difficult, however, it would definitely help to have some suggestions for the:

Sound Card
Graphics Card
A great Case
Speaker/Sound system
etc
Gaming Keyboard
Cooling Unit (I have no idea about this, so need lots of help with this)
Power Supply (same as cooling unit)
Anything else I missed.

I have the mouse I want, and a TV I use as my monitor.

Whelp, have at it

Edit: Also, apparently the Asus Rampage 3 can accept up to 4 GPUs, I do not know how many the Gigabyte can take. Thoughts?

Haggis of Doom · Feb 07, 2011, 02:47 AM // 02:47

First question to ask when you're building a pc: what's your budget?

Anyhow, based on your current choices (920 & UD3R), here's what I suggest:

Sound Card: on board card is fine
GPU: GTX 460 1Gb / GTX 560 (don't go for a low memory GPU, since you're using a high res display)
Case: Antec 300 (I installed my DVDR in the 3rd slot, having it on top didn't obey the golden rule

)
Speaker: whatever floats your boat
Cooling: stock fans on case and cpu are fine unless you're going to overclock
PSU: Corsair 650W. DO NOT buy a builder series one. Never go cheap on the PSU, or you will weep when everything else fries

Optical Drive: whatever, preferably not too ugly as it's the #1 reason ppl hate their optical drives nowadays.
RAM: 3x 2Gb Corsair
HDD: WD Caviar Black 1Tb

A few words on the 2 components you have your eyes on:

I own a Gigabyte GA X58A USB3 (a very similar board to the UD3R with slightly less features - I don't overclock so I don't care), and so far it's doing its job. You may want to give the ugly POST a break and switch to the good old black one, though. And it comes with some junkware you may not want to install. Gigabyte boards are a very solid choice.

As for i7 920... I have an i7 950 because it was cheaper than the 920 when I bought it. It's very good at what it does, though the AMD cpus at the 200$ range may have a better performance/price ratio.

As for 4x GPU: Do you plan on running 4 GPUs? Unless you'll be playing some future game with 3 screens, 2x GTX 460 in SLI is all you need thus far even if you're into the heaviest games. And yes, UD3R can run 2 GPUs in SLI/Crossfire.

Oh, and if you don't need a desktop now, build it later

Prices may drop and your choices will be more informed.

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 07, 2011, 03:06 AM // 03:06

@Haggis

$1,000 to $2000.

1. Is an on-board sound card replaceable with a dedicated sound card later?
2. Are those really good GPUs, or lower end ones (I haven't kept up with GPUs and I have not gone that far in my research for my purchase). Should I have just one GPU, dual-GPUs, or as many as I can fit on the motherboard?
3. What is the "golden rule", why not put the DVDR in the top slot?

skip 4, 5 and 6.

7. How does a Blu-ray reader/writer sound?
8. Is there any reason to go with 3x 2GB RAM cards instead of 2x 4GB RAMs, other than price?

"You may want to give the ugly POST a break and switch to the good old black one". You completely lost me there, I have no idea what you are referring to :/

Thank you for your input

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 07, 2011, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Right now I am stuck at deciding between the Asus Rampage 3 Extreme, the EVGA Classified3, or the Gigabyte GA x58A-UD3R for the motherboard (all make the x58 motherboard). Once I figure that out, the rest should be pretty easy.

Showtime · Feb 07, 2011, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Over the years I have built a dozen systems or so. Some for overclocking, some for silence, all with bang for the buck in mind.

Rule 1: Don't build for more than 2 years down the road. Things change so fast that it's cheaper buy a mid - higher end vid card and then upgrade to a better card (than any current card) in 2 years than to buy the highest end vid card now. Just be sure to read reviews on anything you consider purchasing...

Rule number 2: Don't buy more than you need. What types of games will you be playing and on what size monitor. If a motherboard is designed and marketed as a overclockers mobo and you do not plan on ocing, don't buy it. You'll be paying a premium for features you wont be using. Many feature rich mobo's offer up stuff that people don't even plan to use, but get anyways. Why grab a mobo that will run dual vid cards if you only plan on using 1? For video cards, 1gb of mem should be fine for 1920x1200 gaming. No need to splurge on the 2 gb version of the card or dual gpus. No reason to be able to play anything, if you don't play anything other than GW. Don't buy hard drive(s) today for the amount of storage you're going to need next year. Don't buy or build so you can tell your friends that your computer is capable of this and that. Build it for what you need it to actually do. This applies to everything in life.

Under your budget, I'd go with i7 too. But i5 is plenty quick for most people and you can safely oc it to i7 speeds. Just research and see what you feel comfortable with.

Mobo depends on your personal needs.

RAM depends on mobo etc. But grab at least 4gbs. No more than 6-8 unless you do some heavy duty stuff(autocad, serious vid editing, etc).

Vid card... I'd go with a higher end 1 gb card. Find a few models that will work. Look for sales cuz there seems to be good sales on these every couple of weeks.

Hard drives: I'd go with a solid state for an OS (op system)/boot drive. 64-1xx GB should be plenty. This is what will separate you from dell, hp, etc. When solid state drives are working right, everything opens faster and responds better than with traditional platter drives. Intel makes reliable SS drives, but research it to see if you are comfortable using this technology. Then add a nice 1-2 tb platter HD for your storage. WD blue/black/green or samsungs have worked well for me. BUT hard drives should be carefully researched to see if the current batches are good or bad.

Here's a good place to reference for deals:
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthr...88904&t=553826

$60 for 1.5TB is pretty decent imo:
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthr...8904&t=2641243

Schnellburg · Feb 07, 2011, 05:56 AM // 05:56

To be honest, I had an evga x58 3 way sli and a i7 920 slightly overclocked and I was very impressed with it. I've stepped up from the 920 to a 980 and I'm running with the rampage 3 board that supports 4x gpus, and it is total overkill for just about anything you can imagine. The x58 and ir 920 will do more then what you will ever ask of it. As for a sound card, most of the mobo's have built in HD sound which will do just fine for whatever your planing on doing.

Ram go with 6gbs.

Video card: a 580 will destroy just about whatever you plan on playing unless your playing on like 3 screens, then I would suggest a 2nd and your will be fine for quite a while.

HD: A ssd for windows and games, and 2x1tb WD Caviar blacks for everything else in RAID.

Case: All personal preference. I've had a Thermal Take Armor+ case and was thrilled with it, but it is a LARGE case literally 24" tall by 24" deep by 8" wide. Antec makes some great cases, and I'm currently in a HAF case now. It looks great, and cooling is amazing.

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 07, 2011, 07:12 PM // 19:12

@Showtime

I will probably be playing all of the best games. Currently the most demanding PC games I own are probably Fallout 3 and Starcraft 2, but I intend to play Crysis, Supreme Commander, etc.

The i7 920 is a quad-core correct? But the x58 motherboard can support up to the 6-core CPUs such as the 980 which are coming out. However, I have been told that only a few games benefit from the quad-core (however, they include Supreme Commander, so I want quad-core for that plus future-readiness), and there probably are no games that utilize 6-cores yet.

The x58 seems to be at the perfect point for future-readiness, since if anything does come out that requires a hexa-core before I am ready to build another whole new computer, I can just upgrade.

General question: Is there any reason to go for the 950 over the 920 for the extra .40 ghz? That is to say, would a dual-core 3.0 ghz processor be faster for most games than the 920 quad-core at 2.66 ghz?

I will write what I am currently stuck on with another post.

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 07, 2011, 07:14 PM // 19:14

See the following post for TL;DR and my most important questions.

Where I am stuck deciding between the 3 brands is this:

For easier reading, click on the three links and compare:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=5648696

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...058&CatId=4070

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...741&CatId=4070

Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Motherboard
Processor Socket: Intel

Processor Interface: LGA1366

Form Factor: ATX

Processors Supported: Intel Core i7

Additional Technologies: RoHS Compliant
Intel QuickPath Interconnect

Multi-GPU Support: CrossFire Ready
3-Way SLI

Front Side Bus: up to 6.4 GT/s

Northbridge: Intel® X58

Southbridge: Intel ICH10R

Memory Type: DDR3

Memory Supported: 800MHz DDR3
1066MHz DDR3
1333MHz DDR3
1600MHz DDR3
2200MHz DDR3

Number of Pins: 240-Pin

Number of Slots: 6

Maximum Memory Supported: 4GB - 32bit
24GB - 64bit

Max. Memory Supported Per Slot: 4GB

Channels: 8 Channels

LAN Type: 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit

PS/2 Keyboard Connectors: 1

PS/2 Mouse Connectors: 1

USB Ports (Total): 10

USB 3.0 Ports: 2

USB Rear Panel Ports: 6

USB Onboard Headers: 2 - (expandable to 4 USB ports)

FireWire Ports: 2

LAN Ports: 1

Audio Out Jacks: 6

IDE Headers: 1

FDD Headers: 1

Serial ATA 3.0Gb/s Headers: 8

Serial ATA 6.0Gb/s Headers: 2

ATX Power Connectors: 1 24-Pin Connector

PC Power Connectors: 1 - 8 Pin

Fan Connectors: 1

S/PDIF Connectors: 2

PCI Slots: 2

PCI Express X1 Slots: 2

PCI Express X16 Slots: 4

RAID Support: Yes

RAID Modes: 0
1
JBOD

ASUS Rampage III Extreme Motherboard
Processor Socket: Intel

Processor Interface: LGA1366

Form Factor: Extended ATX

Processors Supported: Intel Core i7
Intel Core i7 Extreme

Additional Technologies: Intel Turbo Boost

Multi-GPU Support: CrossFireX Ready
3-Way SLI

Front Side Bus: up to 6.4 GT/s

Northbridge: Intel® X58

Southbridge: Intel ICH10R

Memory Type: DDR3

Memory Supported: 2200+ MHz DDR3 (Overclocking)

Number of Pins: 240-Pin

Number of Slots: 6

Maximum Memory Supported: 4GB - 32bit
24GB - 64bit

Max. Memory Supported Per Slot: 4GB

Channels: 8 Channels

LAN Type: 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit

PS/2 Keyboard Connectors: 1

USB Ports (Total): 11

USB 3.0 Ports: 2

USB Rear Panel Ports: 8

FireWire Ports: 2

LAN Ports: 1

Serial ATA 3.0Gb/s Headers: 7

Serial ATA 6.0Gb/s Headers: 2

ATX Power Connectors: 1 24-Pin Connector

PC Power Connectors: 1 - 8 Pin

S/PDIF Connectors: 1

PCI Slots: 1

PCI Express X4 Slots: 1

PCI Express X16 Slots: 4

RAID Support: Yes

RAID Modes: 0
1
10
5

EVGA X58 Classified 4-Way SLI Motherboard
Processor Socket: Intel

Processor Interface: LGA1366

Processors Supported: Intel Core i7
Intel Core i7 Extreme

Additional Technologies: HyperThreading Technology
Supports 45nm CPU
Intel QuickPath Interconnect

Multi-GPU Support: SLI Ready
CrossFireX Ready

Front Side Bus: up to 6.4 GT/s

Northbridge: Intel X58

Southbridge: Intel ICH10R

Memory Type: DDR3

Memory Supported: 800MHz DDR3
1066MHz DDR3
1333MHz DDR3
1600MHz DDR3
Triple Channel Supported

Number of Pins: 240-Pin

Number of Slots: 6

Maximum Memory Supported: 4GB - 32bit
24GB - 64bit

Max. Memory Supported Per Slot: 4GB

Channels: 8 Channels

LAN Type: 10/100/1000 Mbps Gigabit

PS/2 Keyboard Connectors: 1

USB Ports (Total): 12

FireWire Ports: 2

LAN Ports: 2

IDE Headers: 1

Serial ATA 3.0Gb/s Headers: 9

ATX Power Connectors: 1 24-Pin Connector

PC Power Connectors: 1 - 8 Pin

S/PDIF Connectors: 1 - Coaxial
1 - Optical

PCI Express X16 Slots: 7

RAID Support: Yes

RAID Modes: 0
1
10
5

I will explain with my next post.

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 07, 2011, 07:25 PM // 19:25

TL;DR

The Asus and EVGA have more RAID modes. Is that important?

The EVGA does not have USB 3.0 slots, and while I am not particularly concerned about that, I wonder if that could be a future-readiness problem?

Currently, I think the above question and the RAID question being answered will settle the issue for me.

EVGA does not support DDR3 RAM higher than 1600MHZ (although I read on a forum that it does, but I would be hesitant to try it since it is not listed under the specifications)

With the exception of the RAID modes, so far the Gigabyte seems like the best all-around for the price, with one caveat:

The Gigabyte does not say that it supports i7 extreme processors (i.e., the 970, 980, and the upcoming 990 hexa-core processors). Now, I have read on reviews that the reviewer did in fact use a 980 with the Gigabyte motherboard, but I want to be certain before buying it.

Schnellburg · Feb 07, 2011, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Does it even matter if that board supports a 980+ processor? Your wanting to use a i7 920 which if done right, can overclock to 5 ghz+.

I personally was an EVGA fanboy, but after going with my latest Asus board, I can say I won't be going back to EVGA for anything but GPU's.

Also do plan on being a hardcore gamer, or just a casual gamer with a computer that is a jack of all trades? For the most part the more RAID configs won't mean much to the average user. USB 3.0 is a big concern for the future because it will obviously support higher speeds, but it is not a future readiness problem 2.0 is fine and not gonna be out of date for a long time.

In the end the decision comes down to which boards fits in your budget the best, and which company you think will give you the support and the best features that will fit your needs.

Quaker · Feb 07, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoth Umbra

The Asus and EVGA have more RAID modes. Is that important?

No, it's not likely that you would ever use anything other than 0 or 1.

Quote:

The EVGA does not have USB 3.0 slots, and while I am not particularly concerned about that, I wonder if that could be a future-readiness problem?

If there comes a time when you particularly want USB3, there will probably be add in cards you could get. If you foresee wanting to get a fast external hard drive (as an example), in the near future, you may want to get USB3 now.

Quote:

EVGA does not support DDR3 RAM higher than 1600MHZ (although I read on a forum that it does, but I would be hesitant to try it since it is not listed under the specifications)

Unless you are overclocking, there's no great need to go beyond DDR3-1333.

Quote:

The Gigabyte does not say that it supports i7 extreme processors (i.e., the 970, 980, and the upcoming 990 hexa-core processors). Now, I have read on reviews that the reviewer did in fact use a 980 with the Gigabyte motherboard, but I want to be certain before buying it.

Check on Gigabytes website to see if there's an updated BIOS for it.

Quote:

8. Is there any reason to go with 3x 2GB RAM cards instead of 2x 4GB RAMs, other than price?

The socket1366 processors use tr-channel memory instead of dual-channel, so you want to put the RAMs in in triplets instead of pairs, for maximum performance.

Dagoth Umbra · Feb 08, 2011, 06:34 AM // 06:34

I looked up RAID on wikipedia, and I actually answered my own question, I probably would not need anything other than RAID 1.

I think I would consider myself a Hardcore gamer, and while I do not do video editing or such as of yet, I would like to keep my options open.

I checked the Gigabyte website, and good news, it does support the i7 980x

@Quaker

I thought that DDR3 RAMs were the tri-channel thing people were talking about (as opposed to DDR2)

But if that is the case, then should I install 3x 4GB RAM for the triplets effect, and so I do not have to upgrade for a long time?

Quaker · Feb 08, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

No, DDR3 is just a newer type of RAM than DDR2. It's not a matter of dual- vs tri-channel.

12Gigs of RAM is overkill at this point. Most socket-1366 mobos will have 6 RAM slots. If you put in 3x2Gigs now, you can always add 3 more later, if 6Gigs should ever seem like too little.

Schnellburg · Feb 08, 2011, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Yep I agree with what Quaker said. Unless your doing very heavy video editing and need to load a lot of programs to ram, then there is really no reason to have more then 6gb of ram. Quite frankly I've really used more then 50% of my 6gb of ram, and that is with GW, vent, Chrome and itunes all running.

bsoltan · Feb 08, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Is there a reason you're not getting a Sandy Bridge system?

Haggis of Doom · Feb 08, 2011, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoth Umbra

Should I have just one GPU, dual-GPUs, or as many as I can fit on the motherboard?

Depends on how much power you need. As others have stated, it's generally not money-efficient to go for the top of the top. I usually buy the second-class stuff and upgrade down the road.

There is generally little need for running more than 1 GPU, but if you do think you'll need that extra power, do a search on the benchmarks for the GPUs you are considering, for the specific games you want to play. Note that:

1- Their testing system are most likely "ideal", so your performance might be slightly lower;

2- Anything above 60 fps won't affect performance. Though it does mean your card doesn't need to work at 100% load.

When you're choosing the GPU, don't discard noise level, temperature and power consumption (they are all better when lower) as useless stats. The GTX 480, for instance, sounded like a jet engine and was so hot people tried to cook eggs on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoth Umbra

3. What is the "golden rule", why not put the DVDR in the top slot?

By "golden rule" I meant the golden ratio, sorry about the confusion

Aside from looks, it also meant the open drive button was further away from the power button.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagoth Umbra

"You may want to give the ugly POST a break and switch to the good old black one". You completely lost me there, I have no idea what you are referring to :/

The POST screen is the screen that your MB generates when your computer starts up. By default (for my USB3 board anyways), Gigabyte has a very ugly cartoonish publicity-like screen (do note that the image is stretched to fit your big display!). You can change it to a traditional POST with actual info on display in the BIOS settings.

Quaker · Feb 09, 2011, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

By "golden rule" I meant the golden ratio, sorry about the confusion

If you were truly sorry about the confusion, you would try to explain what the hell you're talking about and/or what the "golden ratio" has to do with where your DVD is.

Snograt · Feb 09, 2011, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Oh god - I think we're entering the realm of computer feng shui.

Let's not, eh?

Elder III · Feb 09, 2011, 06:27 PM // 18:27

errrr........ I thought everybody liked the optical drive in the top bay? Whenever I have installed one elsewhere (due to a lack of cable length) the customer has complained and I've had to get a cable extension/adapter.

So anymore I just put it in the top by default and noone ever says anything about it. Of course my test station has it in the bottom drive bay (I used to have some very weird wiring going on in there) and I don't care one way or the other, so it's stayed that way. hehe

Haggis of Doom · Feb 10, 2011, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

If you were truly sorry about the confusion, you would try to explain what the hell you're talking about and/or what the "golden ratio" has to do with where your DVD is.

Alright

Here's the thing: when I bought my Antec 300's case, I fully expected it to obey the golden ratio of aesthetics just like any other case does (do an image search if you're skeptical, but ALL cases have some sort of division near the middle but not quite at it

): http://www.addaxcomputer.com/photos/...300-beauty.jpg

However, when I got it, the front panels were slightly darker than in the picture I saw of the case, so it looked more like this: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...e/antec300.jpg

When I put my optical drive on the top slot just like everyone does, it looked very weird (imagine a person with legs 3 times too long), so I've put it in the bottom slot and it looks much better now due to the golden ratio